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Has Apple tripped up with Safari?
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Comments for Has Apple tripped up with Safari?
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#1
/* 2 years, 7 months ago */
Well. Despite the fact that yes there ARE a lot of improvements needed for Safari, there are a lot of good features in it too, that I have only seen in Firefox extensions. Safari has those little bits that make everything so good...like resizing text-boxes. That helps me so much when I write long blogs. And I don't notice any blurriness in my font in Safari. My only problem is that sometimes it stops responding all together and has the ability to freeze my whole computer for up to 20mins! Maximizing and minimizing also take quite a while, and note that there's not that many animations.
But yes Safari DOES load pages very fast for me. It loaded my Bebo profile {mind, that's a lot of Flash} in under 5 seconds, whilst Firefox can take up to 10 seconds to load the page properly.
Now, I believe that the main reason for the speed of Safari is their lack {this could be good} of extensions, because, for example, extensions like FireDoodle have to load every time you load a page. In Safari, there's no such thing. Thus pages tend to load faster. I've also noticed a big improvement in my Firefox after un-installing about 10 extensions and 3 skins that I didn't really need.
I'm guessing that although some people might not notice, extensions can really slow down your page loading. My advice is that if you want any web browser to be as fast as possible, keep it minimal. Use less extensions. Perhaps this is why Safari has the upper hand on speed, with it's minimalist design.
I'm positive that as soon as Safari for Windows gets fixed on the fonts, bugs and security leaks, it will certaintly come into the Windows world. I believe this is especially for developers who need to see if their pages would render correctly on a Mac. Also the obvious advantages are that you get a touch of Apple's beautiful GUI in that window.
Although Windows fans might not like Safari's interface OR Safari itself at all, I have always been a big Mac fan, although I'm still using a Windows desktop now {I'm getting an Intel Macbook in the summer}
I always welcome a touch of Apple's GUI on my computer. Even if it's just a program {say, ObjectDock?} that imitates the Dock in Mac.
I'm sure that Safari will be a success, as Apple IS a success 99% of the time. The only place they have faults is when they stubbornly stick with their GUI and ways of rendering {and not that I have a problem with that. I'm a big Mac fan incase you didn't notice that I said that earlier}
Yes. Security. At least for the 24/7 ALWAYS ON computers, users can sleep peacefully knowing how secure Apple always has been. As soon as Apple patches up Safari, it might even get close to being almost as good as the Mac version of Safari, especially when it comes to protection from the dreaded viruses, trojan horses, keyloggers etc.
:D:D:D
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Hugo
Anonymous User
#2 — Author comment
/* 2 years, 7 months ago */
Thanks for the mammoth post Hugo.
They've got a lot to learn before they can get something like this secure. As I said in the posting, Windows is a completely different beast which is a lot more insecure as far as kernel-level encapsulation and memory protection go. They flaunt that fact in almost every Mac advert... Yet here they are with a bazillion and five very easy to execute security flaws on their doorstep.
I don't know how you can say people should expect high levels of security from Apple products on Windows. Safari is the most hackable (it's parsing tons of wild code), unlike anything they've done before for Windows. They're not the ones that secured their own OS either... The people that made BSD get the credit for that.
Apple have to prove themselves, in my eyes, if nobody else's.
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Oli
Numero Uno
#3
/* 2 years, 7 months ago */
Yes, this would be because Apple is totally based on Unix. I'd be interested to hear Steve Jobs' comment on this, him being a very important person at Apple. Because, if Safari is that hackable, then perhaps Apple should take a hint from Linux and come with Firefox pre-installed instead of Safari.
Maybe.
But then, if they could just improve their security by *taming the code*, it would become far less hackable.
And I think that another reason Apple might be letting its guard down is that:
Mac OS has the upper hand on virus protection since no one seems to bother to hack Mac, Windows being more used.
Maybe the lack of security in Safari is based on the fact that Mac OS get so little viruses and trojans & malware?
:D:D:D
:D:D:D
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Hugo
Normal User
#4 — Author comment
/* 2 years, 7 months ago */
OSX has a tremendous upper hand as a platform over Windows. It inherited the Unix model from BSD. I'm certainly not saying that they should dump Safari in favour of something else (well I think that wouldn't be a bad plan but that's not what I'm saying here), just that they needed to spend a lot more time with the relevant expertise getting Safari locked down on such a weakly protected platform.
What you say is right. Because OSX is a small platform, almost nobody tries to hack it. There's no gain in looking for hacks for it if you can only get 20 computers out of it, when looking for XP hacks might get your botnet an extra 20,000 machines.
But that changed as soon as Safari looked as if it might be coming to Windows. People are finding cross-platform attack vectors (something I'm sure Apple weren't expecting) which endangers its own image on security.
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Oli
Numero Uno
#5
/* 2 years, 7 months ago */
I'm pretty sure that the primary reason for Safari on Windows is for iPhone development & compatibility. From that standpoint, they have to include OS X's font rendering, since that's what the iPhone uses, and you want to see how your web app will actually look.
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McPhage
Anonymous User
#6
/* 2 years, 7 months ago */
Yes, I agree that Apple is also putting its own OS in a big risk. Especially by releasing a beta Safari that has barely been tested and has probably been rushed out just to make the Mac-Fans cheer. If people manage to find a cross platform hack {for example I've already heard that there's a chance that someone could easily execute a Remote Code from their browser *straight to your computer* if you know how}
If I had to give a piece of advice to Steve Jobs, I'd say it would be:
Observe windows. Notice how many people try SUCCESSFULLY to hack it, and how, by just hacking into one computer on a server, can potentially destroy a whole network of computers. Notice how many more people are actually using Windows, despite how insecure it is. Take note that more people are actually trying to hack Windows than Mac, because Windows is so widely used.
Like you said, *Because OSX is a small platform, almost nobody tries to hack it. There's no gain in looking for hacks for it if you can only get 20 computers out of it, when looking for XP hacks might get your botnet an extra 20,000 machines.*
The *server situation* is an example of how easy it might be {on a server with poor security} to destroy a whole company, which is similar to your example.
If I were to run a huge company {which I don't}, I'd definetely make all my workers use Macs. It's not really to do with the fact that I'm a big Mac-Fan, I just like the security of Macs and the fact that so little people actually bother hacking it.
My friends also tell me that Mac as an OS has more complex coding than Windows, making it much harder to hack. If this is so, then I think the only reasons for using Windows are:
They have more software and games
They used to write software for the Mac
Mac did not do too well in its prime. They were often rushing to meet extreme dealines, and sometimes let a few bugs pass, if Jobs thought they weren't showstoppers {not to say that Windows doesn't let any bugs pass!}
I think that Safari for Windows, although it was a great excitement at first, is now probably putting millions of users at risk of having their computers hacked. Because of ONE security flaw, found within 24hrs of the first release of Safari for Windows, millions of users are at risk.
Especially if any employee happened to download Safari onto their office computer. That would be fatal if it got hacked.
I suppose the average user won't really mind about these things. I mean, probably 1 out of 30 of my friends actually know what this means. I wouldn't expect an average user to understand this. But I think that, in order to keep up Apple's reputation for being secure and stable, Jobs should have released a patch for Safari for Windows AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. I'm not sure how late it was released, but I'm sure that the time used to make a patch was more than enough time to hack a few unfortunate users.
Again, most, if not ALL of this chaos was caused by lack of good planning. If they had resisted the Mac crowd for just a few days longer, they could've let testers test it on computers that were designed for this stuff. Then so many people wouldn't have been put at risk.
However, what's done is done. I guess all that Jobs can do now is to spread word of the patch as quickly as possible and hope that the people who downloaded Safari for Windows {I was one of them, I admit I really got excited over this} are responsible enough to understand that this is only a BETA, and that there are bound to be bugs, and that it is totally their responsibility to check for updates on Safari as often as they think needed.
:D:D:D
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Hugo
Normal User
#7
/* 2 years, 7 months ago */
Hugo is on the money! It is BETA!
If Firefox did this much right, nobody would be so critical. Apple makes something like this and forgets to write BETA in 72pt Bold before Safari in 12pt normal, and we seem to forget.
BTW font-rendering on Mac is so much better, I cannot get what you are talking about its being inferior to Windows. It looks more like printed page. Complain to Windows that they have had such poor rendering for so long. That is like complaining that Dannon water is not as good as tap water because it does not taste the same. Sheesh!
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David Eldridge
Anonymous User
#8
/* 2 years, 7 months ago */
Well, you call Safaris text rendering fuzzy, I call Windows text rendering jaggy. I don't see, why MS in the year 2007 still isn't able to remove jaggy type with their "antialiasing"...
"From day one" certainly doesn't mean "day one of the Beta" but "day one of the final release". People wondering about security holes are just naive. Then again, the MacOS version of the Safari 3 beta doesn't have most of these security problems, so perhaps it is more a question of the underlying OS's stability…
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Halix
Anonymous User
#9
/* 2 years, 7 months ago */
From what I've read on here and on 456 Berea St., this probably should have been labeled "Alpha", not "Beta". (The close button doesn't work in the Mac version? Seriously.) Nonetheless, it'll probably be worth looking at again when the final release comes.
Cross me and be thagomized.
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Stegosaurus
Normal User
#10
/* 2 years, 7 months ago */
Hmm...I'm not a Mac user so I have no idea about the bugs of the BETA in Mac.
Yes, perhaps, like Firefox, it should've been named Alpha instead of Beta, in BOLD. My reason for that would be that I have a habit of downloading a lot of Beta programs for real-time use, and I tend to have a very good opinion about them. Now I usually stay away from Alpha's, as I know they're not even safe to use yet!
So perhaps they could have changed the name to Alpha and make a note to all downloaders that it's only Alpha {or a VERY EARLY UNSAFE version of Beta}
:D:D:D
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Hugo
Normal User
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